When I asked you to recommend children’s books about the ocean, I expected you to choose nonfiction, but you chose four novels and one novella. Before we start talking about the books themselves, can you tell me why you decided on fiction?
The reason I chose fiction was twofold. Since the pandemic, I’ve been drawn to reading stories more than ever before. my writing is still nonfiction, but my reading has been increasingly immersed in the fictional world. I discovered that there is a great mix of stories being written, linked in different ways to the ocean. so I thought it would be nice, maybe a little unusual, to consider the other kinds of ways that books can connect readers to the ocean, especially readers who might not instinctively seek out nonfiction books about the sea and sea creatures.
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There are so many beautiful books that cover this part of our planet and our connections to it, and there are so many beautiful books that I could choose from in the realm of non-fiction, like Yuval’s Big Blue Book. zommer, an impressive picture book for young children. Anatomy of the Ocean by Julia Rothman is another charming and perhaps nerdier take on the ocean and what lives there, how it all works, and why it matters. those books are fabulous.
I wanted to think of a slightly different way to connect with the sea. there are so many stories to tell, through adventures and characters that in their own way have ideas and relationships with ocean spaces and ocean species. What I’d like to do with these book recommendations is explore the power of stories to draw other readers into the ocean.
Do you want to talk a bit about what attracted you to marine biology?
my own interest began quietly. My family has always been nature-loving people. we spent a lot of time in the south west of england, in cornwall. he was used to being outdoors and on the beach. for me, it was always normal to be there. Little by little, over time, I became more and more attracted to the ocean. i stuck my head underwater for the first time and saw it myself snorkeling and then diving off the uk coast, by which time i was completely hooked on the idea of spending as much time as i could in the sea and exploring it. it was always about adventure and discovery and being there myself, and seeing these hidden wonders in the sea. that led me down the path of science and exploration, and then a little later also as a writer. It definitely started in my very young years, I don’t remember the first time I was on a beach. the sea has always been in my life.
The books you have chosen about the ocean are for children of various ages and also appeal to adults, but they are mostly aimed at children between the ages of 10 and 14. Is this an age group you particularly want to reach?
the age range of 10 to 14 years is important. I see it as a critical moment for young readers. you have young children who are very attracted to nature and animals and wildlife, be it dinosaurs or creepy crawlies in the garden. there are so many beautiful books that suit such children. there are those like me who will become attached to it, who find themselves so captivated by nature that it will remain a part of their lives beyond those early years. and I think there are many books for older readers that will naturally appeal to them. For example, I consider the popular science books I write to be much more for teenagers interested in science and the oceans.
“the age range of 10 to 14 years is important”
but there is an in-between age range where many other things come up in life that can drive people away from those outdoor spaces and species. and I think there’s an important role in keeping those young readers who loved being outside and finding bugs and that sort of thing, to keep their interest and hopefully keep them in love with nature. storytelling is a powerful way to do this. so I guess it’s a combination of why I chose fiction and also this particular age range. I think it’s an important moment where, instead of letting nature fade away, you hopefully keep it on the minds of young people, even when there’s so much else going on in their world.
I noticed that the authors and illustrator of your first two chosen books are part of an organization called authors for oceans.
Yes, I think there is a growing interest in putting nature, and the oceans in particular, into storytelling, which is what this wonderful group is doing. The group also tries to raise awareness of other ways that books, authors, and the publishing industry can take action to help the ocean. many of them are authors of amazing books that connect in different ways with the sea, and that was on my mind while thinking about these stories.
Let’s move on to your first selection of books about the ocean for children aged 10 to 14, between the sea and the sky by nicola penfold, known for her adventure novels about the natural world.
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This book is a great ecological adventure. Ultimately, it is a message of renewal and growth. it’s about the importance of friendship and clinging to hope no matter how bad things seem. the world he builds is pretty dull and gray, but with flashes of color and ideas that things can get better. I thought it was a very realistic vision of what the world could look like in the not too distant future, if we don’t take real action in the next few years against climate change, pollution and overfishing, the whole range of impacts facing the ocean due to human activities. between the sea and the sky is probably suitable for slightly younger children, perhaps 9-13 years old.
The author researched restorative ocean agriculture while writing this novel. I’m interested to know what you think about that concept and if you like algae as much as she does.
I really like algae. the idea of restorative agriculture is really interesting and exciting. there are some innovative projects looking for new ways to create food and other products from the ocean. farming the ocean in a thoughtful and creative way is not simply about including high-value fish species like salmon, but about looking for different organisms that can actually create benefits for the ocean in addition to providing food. algae are a big part of that. it removes carbon from the atmosphere, it can be made into animal feed that reduces the methane they produce, and it’s also good for people to eat. seaweed won’t solve all the problems we have in the ocean and won’t work everywhere.
These regenerative farms can incorporate other species, oysters, clams, etc., that can help clean the water and recycle nutrients within a three-dimensional farm that extends from the surface to the seabed. the concept also generates a real sense of ownership of parts of the sea, which is something that is often missing. People often think of the ocean as a big open space that no one owns. when it comes to ocean farming, it really can be a case of local ownership and management. it’s great that more people want to grow food and make a living from the ocean in a way that will generate profits and jobs for years to come instead of just removing life from the ocean and reaping the profits, which has happened many times before . .
Let’s talk about your second novel about the ocean for children from 10 to 14 years old, the song that sings to us. It is from Nicola Davies, zoologist, environmentalist and adventurer. she is also the narrator for the audio version.
nicola davies has written many books for all ages. After reading this book and enjoying it so much, I think anyone could read it or have this story read to them. it is incredibly rich and beautiful. it’s an ecological dystopia that looks to the future, but I think there’s a lot of utopia there too. Nicola has an extraordinary way of creating a vision of what a very different world would be like and what the characters might be doing within that world. it’s a very beautiful story, that’s the bottom line, and I love its subtlety. but it also progresses, it’s a fabulous adventure story.
It has an incredibly fast and adrenaline-pumping opening chapter.
immerses you in the story. he knows how to step on the accelerator and then step on it again and calm the rhythm. at those points it becomes profoundly poetic and reflective. the depth of ecological thinking that went into this book is extraordinary. she’s thinking about connections across the world, what we can all do, the role of activism and resistance, and how things can really move toward change for the better. It is an overwhelming story, with brilliant characters. If nothing else, read this for the magnificent elephant, or the tiger captain. Interwoven throughout the story is this idea of the connections between humans and non-human animals. it’s the kind of book that makes you wish a lot of this actually happened. I would give anything to be able to understand the language of other animals and communicate with them. the song he sings to us talks about why I chose fiction for this interview. What she does with her storytelling has tremendous power to inspire readers and show them what’s possible.
your next pick is blueback, an award-winning novel (including the audio version), written by tim winton, who has been named a living treasure by the australian national trust. people talk about it as a crossover book for kids and adults and it’s one you also picked up in a previous interview so it’s obviously stood the test of time for you.
This is the oldest title in my selection of five and has been with me since it was published in 1997. When I first read it, it perfectly captured how I feel when I’m in the ocean, when I’m exploring and diving and seeing things. myself. It is about a boy named Abel Jackson who lives with his mother in an idyllic and wild area of Western Australia. Abel is always at sea, and one day he meets and befriends a huge fish he calls a blueback. I found myself deeply wishing as a child that I had befriended a giant fish. I definitely share abel’s desire to understand the ocean, to communicate with the animals that live there and learn their language, but also to discover what makes the sea sick. This book unblinkingly analyzes the invasion of the modern world in the ocean. is a story that absolutely, and very sadly, stands the test of time. since it was written, very few of the problems, such as overfishing and pollution, have improved and most of them have gotten worse. Abel is also quite ahead of his time, an activist before the kids talked about activism. he instinctively knows that he has to do something about the threats to his beloved bay. despite all the problems he shows, blueback is an evocative and elegant portrait of marine life. That’s another reason why I love this book, it takes you under the waves in such a vivid way.
Your next pick for ocean novels for ages 10-14 is Terry Pratchett’s Nation. is an award-winning alternate history set in the 1860s with fantasy elements, and it was a michael l. printz honor book in 2009.
terry pratchett is a master world builder. this is a standalone book, not part of his discworld series, and an absolute joy to read. I’m a huge fan of all of the Pratchetts, and to me the nation stands out because it’s so oceanic in its subject matter, in its breadth, and in its storytelling. is an alternate history set in the great southern pelagic ocean. is a book about cultures coming together and learning from each other. it’s about environmental disasters and how people adapt to and cope with them. it’s incredibly rich in detail of the world we’re exploring, a realistic but slightly different version of our world. The characters are glorious, and it’s a brilliantly funny but also deeply thoughtful book, which is what you always get from Pratchett. I love that he brought his world view to the ocean in such a beautiful way in this book, it really is a lot of fun. this novel would probably work best for children ages 12 and up.
Your final choice is Natasha Bowen’s Skin of the Sea, which looks like a fabulous retelling of Hans Christian Andersen’s 1837 story of love, sacrifice, and eternal soul, The Little Mermaid.
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the skin of the sea is related to all kinds of mythologies, mainly the West African mythology of mami wata. this character is a powerful and legendary siren that appears in different incarnations and stories throughout the African diaspora. she is a fascinating mix of different cultural influences, including European mermaid myths. Natasha Bowen takes Mami Wata into the very real and very dark stories of the people who lost their lives while enslaved in the Americas, and whose bodies were dumped in the Atlantic Ocean. his book makes an important contribution to a growing body of work, including literature, visual arts, and music, that keeps alive the cultural connections to the deep sea and the mid-atlantic passage, which is the final resting place and hidden from millions of people. I see this book as part of a virtual memorial that is helping to keep these stories in people’s minds and not allow them to be forgotten. that’s what originally drew me to the book, and then reading it, i loved being taken to this mythical version of the ocean. there are many real, living wonders in the ocean, but it’s always exciting to explore other possibilities of what might be going on out there. there are so many things you can’t see in the ocean and people have always filled it with imaginary gods and monsters. maybe there really could be mermaids, we just haven’t found them yet. they’ve been floating around in people’s minds for so long and I love that they continue to do so today. I think it’s wonderful that we have modern interpretations of ancient characters, and that they still have great relevance today.
Her selection of ocean books focuses on the 10-14 age range, but this novel seems to be geared towards slightly older readers.
yes, it’s a fairy tale for teenagers. it is a love story. and there is a darkness in this one, certainly, with the connection to the slave trade and what happened to so many people. this is probably best suited for 13-17 year olds.
Can I ask you something personal? do you eat shellfish?
I stopped eating meat as a teenager, outraged by the clearing of the Amazon rainforest to make way for cattle ranches. I continued to eat seafood for years, but now I eat very little, and only if I can be sure that it has been fished sustainably and ethically. If I’m being totally honest, the only reason I haven’t completely given up on seafood is because I can’t resist how delicious it is!
Has sustainable fishing been correctly defined? Should we feel safe eating seafood that claims to be sustainable?
It’s complicated. You can imagine that, as a marine biologist who speaks openly on these topics, I’m an absolute sucker at dinner parties. I’m going to ask “what species is that? where was he caught? And how was he captured? Ultimately, you need to know all of that to be sure of sustainability, but it can be a real minefield. simply saying cod from the north sea, for example, is not enough. You can get good advice from things like The Good Fish Guide, which is a website and smartphone app, and it breaks things down in terms of best and worst options. There is a similar one put out by the Monterey Bay Aquarium called Shellfish Watch which is for species generally available in North America. The Australian Marine Conservation Society has an equivalent called Goodfish. Some of the eco-labelling systems, like the Marine Stewardship Council, can show you what the best options are, but they have problems. Ultimately, if you eat seafood, it’s up to you to try to be considerate and find out more about what you eat and where it comes from.
Do we understand as much about the relationship between the ocean and climate change as we do about the effects of human impacts on terrestrial habitats, such as rainforests and peatlands?
the oceans are of vital importance for climate change. to begin with, they have absorbed about 90 percent of the excess heat trapped in the atmosphere by greenhouse gases. if it weren’t for all that water, which covers seven tenths of the earth, we would be in an even more catastrophic situation than we are now. a great deal of carbon is also sequestered in the ocean, sinking to the depths and locked in habitats such as kelp forests, seagrass beds, salt marshes, and mangrove forests. And just like forests and peatlands on land, those habitats are being damaged and destroyed at a frightening rate. For example, the UK has lost 44% of its seagrasses since the 1930s. People are now working hard to replant seagrasses and restore this carbon-absorbing ecosystem. It will also be good news for all the species that live in seagrasses. the more seagrass beds there are, the more habitat there is for amazing species like seahorses.
As we understand more about how the ocean plays a key role in mitigating climate change, human impacts on the ocean are also making the climate crisis worse. fishing has several impacts on the climate. The fishing industry has a huge fuel bill due to the types of boats used to go fishing. In particular, fishing in distant waters, and especially in deeper waters, consumes so much fuel that most of these fisheries would not be economically viable if they did not receive fuel subsidies from governments. therefore, it makes no economic, let alone environmental, sense to fish in those areas. and deep sea fishing is not feeding the world. they are mostly providing fish that goes to high-income countries. To make matters worse, many of the targeted fish play an important role in the carbon cycle. they help draw carbon into the deep ocean, keeping it out of the atmosphere. therefore, people are also disrupting those critical pathways due to overfishing.
Getting young people to read ocean books and want to be marine biologists would be a great way forward.
Absolutely, I’ve noticed a growing excitement lately around the ocean. A lot of kids I know tell me they want to be marine biologists, which is great. we need as many brilliant people as possible working in the ocean. but an important message that I also want to convey is that you don’t have to be a marine biologist: the oceans are for everyone. we all care. spending time near, on and in the sea can benefit you whatever you do in life. So whether you feel like science or conservation is for you, the oceans are definitely for you. and the oceans need you. I want as many people as possible to know and care about what lives there, what the problems are, and to fight for a better future for the oceans.
I love stories about the sea because they draw so many more people to the realm of the ocean. this is not an exclusive space for people who know how to dive and who want to be both above and below the water. the ocean really is for everyone and stories like these show that there are many different ways to connect with the sea.
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